Discipleship: the hope of the church.

Steve Brown:
Discipleship:  the hope of the church. Let’s talk about it on this edition of Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
This is Key Life. We’re here to communicate the freeing truth that God’s not mad at his children. Steve invited our friend Pete Alwinson to teach us all this week. Pete is a former pastor, Founder of ForgeTruth.com and the author of Like Father Like Son.

Steve Brown:
Pete, this has been really good stuff as we talk about men’s ministry. It’s kind of way out of my comfort zone, so I’m learning all kinds of things that are really important. We mentioned yesterday, and we had a basic text we started on from II Timothy 2, where Paul says to his son, Timothy. He calls him my son. He said.

What you’ve heard from me before many witnesses, entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

That’s kind of what discipleship is, but it’s hard and it’s complicated, isn’t it? I mean, you can’t say you old guys get with the young guys and fix it.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
Doesn’t work that way, does it?

Pete Alwinson:
It doesn’t. You know, we think discipleship as a program because we’re programmatic kind of people, but it’s really a lifestyle. And so, grace is the energizing principle of all discipleship, right? Once you’re redeemed by grace, grace is what transforms us and renews our mind. And yet when it comes to passing that on in the congregation, it’s not just a six week course or six weeks, then six weeks and another six weeks. It’s asymmetrical, it’s always, it’s sermons, it’s talking to you in the lobby afterwards, it’s getting coffee and lunch with a more mature Christian. And discipleship or the development of a Christian male or female is asymmetrical. It’s all around us and there’s not one entry point and one final point. Well, the final point is when we see Jesus, right? Because then we’ll be like him, John says.

For we will see him as he is.

What I want to say to older guys in the church is, listen, I know, I know, you don’t feel competent to disciple. You haven’t been to seminary. You don’t feel like you can disciple these younger guys. You do not have to know everything before you disciple or develop a younger man. What he’s really looking for is a spiritual father role model that he can spend time with. And so, I say just older guys, whether you’re a boomer, or a generation X are starting to catch up with us. I’m not getting any older, but there are Xers are catching up with me. You know, start spending time. I think every man ought to have, as so many have said, a Paul, a Barnabas, and a Timothy in their life. Right? Guys that

Steve Brown:
Explain that.

Pete Alwinson:
Well, we need to have somebody who’s older than us and more theologically deep, Biblically deep,

Steve Brown:
like Paul

Pete Alwinson:
like a Paul, who can teach us things that we, and take us into books of the Bible that, Wow. Oh, that’s what Romans is really saying, you know, and then we need brothers and Christian men who are great encouragers like the Barnabas, son of encouragement. And then we need Timothy’s, people that we are intentionally pouring into. And I say to guys at every age, we can have those guys. Just take them, meet them at church. Be aggressive on a Sunday morning and you see some young guy with his wife, go over and introduce yourself. Hey, my name is Bill and I’ve just seen you here, tell me about yourself and just start a conversation. And you don’t have to, and then say, Hey, listen and see if it follows up week after week and then maybe take them to lunch. Get to know Him.

Steve Brown:
You had mentioned, and you’ve mentioned this to me before, that at the heart of this is grace which allows for authenticity. And what you’re talking about is be who you are, reach out, especially to younger men, and see what God does.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s, and that’s what, you know, that’s what you did with me years ago. I mean, I heard you preach and then I wrote you a note and I said, Hey, would you mentor me? And you said, yes, I for sure you were going to say no, because you were traveling all over the place and doing everything. And that was a real blessing, a real gift to me. It still is. And older men need to realize that they are a gift to younger guys because younger guys are hungry to learn how to do life, even if they have, you know, Hey, the fact is that a lot of guys in Gen Z or millennials or Gen X, they had a rough. The Gen Xers, you know, had messed up dads and messed up families in many cases. And they were angry at most men or leadership figures, authority figures. They were on their own. They were going to do it and make it happen. And to build a bridge to a Gen X guy wasn’t always easy. And millennials are just another level of wild. And we criticize millennials and we got to stop that in the church. We’ve got to stop criticizing other generations. We’ve just got to say, Hey listen, people are people and they need Jesus. And if we understand some of the forces that shaped us, we can understand some of the forces that shaped the generations below us.

Steve Brown:
We really need each other, don’t we?

Pete Alwinson:
Oh man, it is so true. And the church ought to be modeling this understanding of the differences of generations. Without overemphasizing it and you can go too far with that, too.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, you can go crazy with it if you’re not careful.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, that’s right.

Steve Brown:
But I see it as so helpful and so important because most men are looking for this.

Pete Alwinson:
Most men are. And yet, most men are not going to come and ask for it, because again, we have this mentality that we’ve got to have all things, we’ve got to have it together. And most men do not have it together. And we were not trained intentionally by our dads. My dad never intentionally developed me. I told my two sons, I said, you’re not a man yet, but I’m going to develop you as boys into men. And this may have been arrogant at the time, but I didn’t know any other way to say it. I said, listen, I’m going to turn you into a man. And when I say you’re a man, you’re a man. And don’t let anybody tell you you’re not because that’s my role. My role as your dad is to turn you into a Christ following man. And so, I really took seriously that that was my role. Then God gave us a daughter and was like, I don’t know what’s going on here.

Steve Brown:
You know, you guys that are listening, you don’t know this, but I get a chance to observe this family. And that’s exactly what happened. Your kids are all walking with Christ, because that was an intentional thing that you did and you even verbalized it to your kids.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. And you knew how to do women, you’ve got two great daughters. And I have a great daughter too, by the grace of God. I had a wife that helped me learn how to develop and disciple her too. Girls need their dads in a big way.

Steve Brown:
Oh, I know.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s a huge thing.

Steve Brown:
I agree.

Pete Alwinson:
But as we talk about men, we realize that so much effort used to be put into developing men that is not put into developing men today. America never had a culture of a rite of passage of training for a man. Most other cultures have, historically.

Steve Brown:
Kind of a bar mitzvah?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. The Jewish culture had the bar mitzvah where the son, the boy would become at what 12, the son of the covenant. But there had to be training that went into that. And so, but every, it’s fascinating, Gilmore is his name, he’s a secular guy, wrote a book on the rite of passage in many cultures. And it’s just fascinating to see that in every culture, like African cultures, where the boys would, the men would live together and the women would live together and the kids would live with the women. But when the boy reached the age, the men would come outside the hogan or the, the house, call the boy out. And crying, he would have to leave the women and come and be with the men. And from then on, he would be with the men, and learn how to be a man. But American culture never had that. And so, the Christian culture is what did in America develop men on a regular basis. And then as Christianity has become watered down, we’ve lost even that manhood training for boys within the church.

Steve Brown:
And so, your concern for men is a concern for the church.

Pete Alwinson:
It is. It really is.

Steve Brown:
It really is. It’s where the church can shine or be awful.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s exactly it. This is not a men are better than women or women are better than men thing. It’s God has created both genders, and there are two genders, and he’s given us great roles. And we need, but we need to be equipped and trained to live in those roles as men and as women.

Steve Brown:
You’ve given your life to this, and I am impressed with how men are attracted to it. Is there an awareness among most men of this need? Or is it undefined? And when they hear it and see it like in you, they’re drawn to it, and there’s this sense of coming home.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s a really good question and it’s a big question. I would say that most men really understand the need to become a man, but there’s so much that is foggy and hazy in our culture now. So, there’s a broad response to that. I will say that when a man comes into a new church, say he’s visiting your church, he will be able to pick up right away the man culture. Are men wanted? Is this a feminine culture, a masculine culture? Do they just, do they really want me here? Am I really wanted or do they just want my money?

Steve Brown:
Listen, we’re going to talk about that tomorrow. This is good stuff and it’s different. I recognize that, but it’s important. We stop and analyze and ask questions, and see what God is calling us to do. You think about that. Amen.

Matthew Porter:
Powerful stuff. Thank you Steve Brown and Pete Alwinson. If you’re just joining us, we’re in a special week long series called Men and Grace in the Church. We still have one more day to go, and you do not want to miss that. Well, if you’re a regular listener to Key Life, then you’ve probably heard Pete before. So, you may be interested in reading some articles he’s written on our website. How do you find those? Mmm, glad I asked. Just go to keylife.org then on the left hand menu, click the Authors button. Then just scroll down till you find Pete’s name. And as you’re there, you’ll also see info and articles from all our Key Life contributors. It’s an easy way to deep dive into the content that ministers to you the most. And great news, all of our website content is still free, thanks to the generous support of listeners just like you. If you’d like to donate, just call 1-800-KEY-LIFE that’s 1-800-539-5433. If you’d like to send your donation by mail, just go to keylife.org/contact to find our mailing addresses for the U.S. and Canada. Or e-mail [email protected] you can charge a gift on your credit card or include a gift in your envelope. And of course you can now give safely and securely simply by texting Key Life to 28950 that’s Key Life, one word or two. It doesn’t matter. Just text that to 28950, then follow the instructions. Key Life is a member of ECFA in the States and CCCC in Canada. And we are a listener supported production of Key Life Network.