“I’m celibate and gay. What do I do?”

Steve Brown:
I’m celibate and gay, what do I do? The answer to that and other questions on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
Welcome to Key Life. Our host and teacher is Steve Brown. He’s nobody’s guru, but he does have honest answers to hard questions about the Bible. God’s grace changes everything, how we love, work, live, lead, marry, parent, evangelize and worship. Now, here’s Steve and Pete Alwinson from ForgeTruth with street-smart Bible teaching for real life.

Steve Brown:
Thank you Matthew. Hey Peter, how are you?

Pete Alwinson:
Steve, you’ve never made that admission before.

Steve Brown:
That was not an admission. Okay, I just, it was a teaser.

Pete Alwinson:
Oh, for

Steve Brown:
And there is a difference.

Pete Alwinson:
Oh, somebody else asked that.

Steve Brown:
But if I were gay.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
Would you still love me?

Pete Alwinson:
I would, absolutely.

Steve Brown:
Just wanted to check, in a man way.

Pete Alwinson:
In a man way. Yeah, that’s right. I really would. And this is good.

Steve Brown:
Boy, are we going to get letters?

Pete Alwinson:
I know, we’re off to a bad start.

Steve Brown:
That’s Pete Alwinson, by the way, and if you haven’t checked out ForgeTruth.com you ought to do that. Dynamite weekly podcast, a lot of great audio and video teaching, it will be worth your effort. And as you know, Pete comes in and every Friday we devote the whole program to answering questions. And we love your questions. You can ask a question anytime you want, 1-800-KEY-LIFE, follow instructions and sometimes we put your voice on the air. Or you can send your question to

Key Life Network
P.O. Box 5000
Maitland, Florida 32794

in Canada, it’s

Key Life Canada
P.O. Box 28060
Waterloo, Ontario N2L 6J8

or you can e-mail your question to [email protected] and if you can help us financially, I promise we’ll squeeze every dime for the glory of God. We’re a member of ECFA in the States and CCCC in Canada, and those organizations check to make sure we’re honest, so you can trust us. Help us if you can, if you can’t, say a prayer for this ministry. Pete, why don’t you pray for us, and we’ll get to these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
You got it. Let’s pray together. Father, thank you that we can come into your presence today. Thank you at the end of this week that we can just stop for a minute and remember you’ve been in charge all the time. Thank you for your goodness to us, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And Lord, you know we have so many needs. There’s so many challenges in our lives. We have bills to pay. We have health needs. We have relational needs. We need growth and healing in our own life. So Lord, we pray that you would pour out your grace into our lives. And we pray for our pastors and teachers and priests and leaders this week-end as we go to church. And we just ask that Lord, you’d give them as they pull their messages together, the words to say, and that we would have ears to hear your word. We commit this time to you now, and we just pray that you would give us wisdom as we follow you. In Jesus’ Name we pray. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen. Pete, let’s go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
Even though I’ve been celibate for over a decade as a gay man, because I know that homosexuality is not of God. As a Christian for 54 years, I’m still noticing that it is men that I am more drawn to and want to be with more than a woman. What is the next step towards godliness? I am still not comfortable with women who all are always opportunist with me and take advantage of my kindness and generosity. Thank you.

Steve Brown:
That’s, first, let me compliment you. You’re a pretty gutsy guy. And we admire you for saying what you did say and knowing that other people were going to listen. I think you have to fix your view of women. But in terms of being gay, you’re no different than any other sinner. You’ve got temptations to sin and you get to make a choice and you’ve made a legitimate and right choice and we admire you for it. I think we demonize people because they’re tempted. We can’t do that. And you’re tempted just like everybody else is tempted. You’re in a place where in most Christian circles, you know, you would be put down for just being tempted. But the church itself, Martin Luther said.

I can’t keep the birds from flying over my head, but I can keep them from building a nest in my hair.

And we all face that. Pete and I struggle. Jeremy, the producer, struggle. Brad, our friend, who’s here in the studio, struggles. We all do. And you live your life, the way God calls you to, and you’re doing it, and good for you.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. Yeah. I’m with you a hundred percent. And, you know, I do think that some things don’t get fixed in this life. Some sins don’t get eradicated.

Steve Brown:
That’s true.

Pete Alwinson:
Some temptations don’t go away. On the other hand, we never give up striving for, and I remember when I was writing my book, people talked about, don’t use the word victory, but there is victory.

Steve Brown:
Sometimes, there is, yes.

Pete Alwinson:
God gives us incredible victory and we need to keep asking Him to renew us. On the other hand, now, with the women thing, I think you made that statement at the beginning.

Steve Brown:
Well, I had to admonish him and remind him he was still a sinner.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, I know. I mean, he feels like some ladies are trying to take advantage of his kindness and goodness. Yeah, well, don’t let them. Don’t let them.

Steve Brown:
That’s right. Good advice.

Pete Alwinson:
But love them in Jesus, and then develop an assertiveness, based on your identity in Christ, develop an assertiveness that’s loving and kind, and don’t give in.

Steve Brown:
And then say no.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, say no, I can’t do that.

Steve Brown:
You know, I remember when I was a young pastor, and my views have not changed since this day. I didn’t know a single gay or lesbian person, not one. And a guy we had voted to be a deacon in our church came late at night to the church manse, woke me up. And he was crying, and I thought, good heavens, something bad has happened. He came in and said, I can’t serve as a deacon. And I said, why? And he said, cause I’m attracted to men. I was blown away. I said, are you screwing around with me? And he said, oh, no, he had two children. And no, I’m not. And I said, well, I kind of think that you should still serve as a deacon, but I’m going to get, this is the first time I’ve thought about it, so I’m going to do some checking.

Pete Alwinson:
Right.

Steve Brown:
And I did. I had some older guys, some of whom didn’t think he should serve, and some thought he should. And I decided, what am I doing? We don’t have any deacons who aren’t sinners.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. That’s right.

Steve Brown:
So, I had him serve, best deacon we ever had in the church and eventually became an elder in the church.

Pete Alwinson:
Isn’t that something?

Steve Brown:
Yeah, it really is.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s good.

Steve Brown:
This is an e-mail, Pete. What exactly is the human soul and what is its function or purpose?

Pete Alwinson:
Ha! Give it a shot. See, what’s a human soul?

Steve Brown:
Well, in the opening chapter of Genesis in Creation, God breathed the breath. And Adam became a soul.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
The word’s nephesh.

Pete Alwinson:
Nephesh, yeah.

Steve Brown:
So, we don’t have a soul, we are a soul.

Pete Alwinson:
We are a soul, yeah.

Steve Brown:
I guess. And I, you know, I don’t, you’ve got to be careful when you start dichotomizing the pieces. There are people that do that with three body, soul, and spirit.

Pete Alwinson:
So, would you disagree with that? Cause I used to be tripartite, but I think the Bible is more, we’re really dipartite.

Steve Brown:
Yeah, I think so. And I think that passage in that, where Paul talks about the difference between the heavenly and the earthly body means there’s a difference. And no, I don’t, but I don’t get upset about it. I’m okay either way.

Pete Alwinson:
Watchman Nee went that way.

Steve Brown:
Oh, I used to love reading Watchman Nee. And I sometimes I felt like I understand the sentences, but I’m drowning here. I don’t know what’s going on. So, you’ve got to be careful about getting so esoteric and start doing too much with words. And you’ve got to be careful here, too. But I think we do have a soul. And I think it’s so much a part of our body that eventually it’s going to be the same at the resurrection of the body. And that’s everything I know about it.

Pete Alwinson:
I think it’s important to note though, right. The Bible says we’re material and immaterial and both are true. Both are true of who we are. And that’s why in the eternal state, we will not just be souls floating around or spirits floating around. We’ll have a new bodies because God made us body and soul, spiritual and physical.

Steve Brown:
and together

Pete Alwinson:
together

Steve Brown:
Well, that’s good. This is an e-mail question. How are the people of the Old Testament saved?

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. I mean, we generally agree that they’re saved by looking ahead in the best possible sense to the work of Christ coming, the Lamb that would come.

Steve Brown:
Every time a lamb was sacrificed, that was a shadow of a reality of Jesus, but they were saved by their faith.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. Abraham was a believer.

Steve Brown:
Same way you do. Read Hebrews 11 and it talks about.

All these all died in faith, not having received what was promised.

And then it talks about, Jesus is not mentioned there, it’s talking about righteousness that comes from faith. And so, yes, looking ahead, even though they didn’t know they were looking ahead. Every time a lamb was sacrificed, they were affirming what God was going to do for the entire world.

Pete Alwinson:
And I think that’s right. They were essentially trusting in God, trusting in God for their salvation as they looked ahead, even though they didn’t know what exactly, so it’s not by, they weren’t saved by keeping the Ten Commandments, because a lot of people say that. I’m good. I mean, the Jews, God gave them one way to get saved, by keeping the Ten.

Steve Brown:
Same way as ours.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s the same faith, they were saved by grace out of Egypt, and then they got the Ten Commandments.

Steve Brown:
That’s true.

Pete Alwinson:
So, they were saved by grace, and then taught how to live.

Steve Brown:
And that’s the way we do it, too.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s the same way for us.

Steve Brown:
Speaking of such, how do we resist sin? That’s an e-mail, by the way. Run. Run.

Pete Alwinson:
I know, I was just thinking of what Pat Morley said to me once, he said.

Women run away from sin. Men crawl away slowly, hoping they’ll be overcome.

Steve Brown:
That’s a funny statement.

Pete Alwinson:
I know, but yes, we resist it firm in our faith.

Steve Brown:
And we do it, and sometimes by running. Sometimes by running to a brother or a sister, who faces exactly the same thing, cause two are better than one. And then sometimes we tell the elders, cause a bunch is better than one.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. That’s right. We have the means of grace.

Steve Brown:
We really do.

Pete Alwinson:
We’re saved. We have the Word of God. We’ve got the Spirit of God. We’ve got brothers and sisters. There’s many resources that we have.

Steve Brown:
In God’s word. Yeah, it is. That’s how we became totally pure and sanctified, right?

Pete Alwinson:
Well, you did last week, and I’m looking forward to it sometime in the future.

Steve Brown:
Guys, we’ve got to go. But first, Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.