What about the Freemasons?

Steve Brown:
What about the Freemason? The answer to that and other questions on Key Life.

Matthew Porter:
If you think laughter isn’t spiritual or that faithfulness to God means conformity to Christian stereotypes. Then this program probably isn’t for you. But if you’re looking for honest, Biblical answers to honest questions, welcome to Key Life. Here’s our host author and seminary professor Steve Brown, along with Pete Alwinson from ForgeBibleStudy.com.

Steve Brown:
Thanks Matthew. Hi Pete.

Pete Alwinson:
Hey man. Hey, I need some free, I want to build a house. I need some Freemasons. There’s a lot to be done.

Steve Brown:
I don’t think that’s what the, and you also off the air and I couldn’t believe you said it. You said you were wondering about enslaved masons.

Pete Alwinson:
Well, I thought about that too, you know, but.

Steve Brown:
Sometimes I wonder about you. I think this grandfather thing, you’re losing it.

Pete Alwinson:
Well,

Steve Brown:
[Laughing]

Pete Alwinson:
your point would be?

Steve Brown:
Guys, that’s Pete Alwinson. And if you want to know something about Pete, go to ForgeBibleStudy.com. The ministry is Forge, and it’s a thing for guys. And if you go there and you’re female, you’ll learn a lot of stuff you ought to know too. Um, and if you’re in Central Florida, you ought to check out the website and maybe become a part of Forge. Um, by the way, we love to get your questions and you can ask a question by calling 1-800-KEY-LIFE. You can do that 24 seven, and record it. And we sometimes put you on the air, or you can send your question to

Key Life Network
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Or you can send your question to [email protected]. And if you can help us financially, please do. We’re a member of ECFA in the States and 4C in Canada, both organizations check to make sure we’re ethical. And we promise that we’ll squeeze every dime for the glory of God. So help us if you can, if you can’t, we understand. Pete, would you pray for us? And then we’ll get to some of these questions.

Pete Alwinson:
Alright. Let’s go. Father, what a joy to come into your presence today, to remember who, who we are, that we, we belong to the great God of the universe, that we are your deeply beloved daughters and sons and all because of the work of Jesus. So we come into your presence today and we’re grateful. Thank you for coming after us when we wanted nothing to do with you. Thank you that in our rebellious times, you, you drew us back to you and you forgave us. You forgive us today and tomorrow and all because of the work of Jesus. So we honor you, Lord Jesus. We ask that you would continue to allow your grace to seep deeply into our minds and hearts that we’d be set free and understand that the freedom that you give us is eternal and it’s powerful. It energizes us to a whole new life. So we, we do pray that your gospel would make more and more sense to us even this week as we go to church. And so we pray for our leaders, pastors, teachers, worship directors, all those that stand before us, draw us into your presence and help us remember about your grace and your word Jesus. Well, Steve and I now come before you with these questions, Lord, thank you for your people. Be with them and use this time. We pray to your honor and glory, we pray, in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Steve Brown:
Amen, Pete, uh, let’s go to our phone lines.

Caller 1:
You made a statement saying that the third degree Masons okay, was like the rotary club or something like that. They swear that they can’t reveal any of the secrets that go behind closed doors. If so, the other Masons are supposed to kill them. They had told him walking in total darkness, even as a Christian and through their arts and crafts, they’ll see the light. They’re told as a Mason, when they die, they will be resurrected in that celestial lodge in the heavens above with a great architect of the universe. So Steve, please look at the old set, these men swear to, it’s so anti-God, it’s unbelievable.

Steve Brown:
Well, if you, if they have all these secrets, how do you know that? But I, but I, I was a chaplain in a Masonic lodge for a long time and at least, uh, one of your statements was the reason I left. Now I’ve found out a lot more since then, but we get these books and these rants sometimes from a lot of people that the Freemasons are trying to take over the world, they’re kind of like the Illuminati. And I just want you to know, that’s not true. They’re too old. They’re not many of them left, man. If they’re going to take over the world and they’re, and they don’t have a lot of money, so that’s a funny way to do it. And I think if you’re going to worry about somebody taking over the world, it shouldn’t be the Freemasons. Secondly, in the blue lodge, which is the first three, it is kind of like a rotary club, um, secret organization for guys who want to get out of the house once a week and play pool with their friends. Yeah. There are a lot of vows that are kind of like what you said, but it is explained that that is metaphorical. And the prayers are said to the God, they say it won’t contradict to religious view. Well, I bought into that and I became a chaplain and then I became a Christian. And all of a sudden I realized, you know, this doesn’t fit what I’m talking about. I had found out salvation by Christ, alone, faith in Christ alone. And, uh, I was doing Masonic funerals, saying just what he said, you know, they’re going to be received by the great architect in the heaven. And I thought, that’s not true. It ain’t gonna work that way. So I had a lot of friends who were pastors, who were Masons. I went around and said, how do you reconcile this? And they said, I don’t have any problem. So I said, I’m outta here. So I quit. And that was a simple decision. I liked them. I liked playing pool. I liked the secret handshake and the sequence of words. That’s kind of a cool thing to do, but I can’t do that.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
So I quit.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
And I did, and I did, and I just left. Well, subsequent to that, I found out there’s some kind of occult stuff that goes on in the higher degrees. And that may be true. I’m not sure, but your local friend who goes to a Masonic lodge and the blue lodge is the same as your friend down the street who goes to Kiwanis Club or Rotary Club. And when somebody dies, they say they’re in heaven too. And we just have the truth and they don’t and we have to speak it kindly.

Pete Alwinson:
There you go.

Steve Brown:
So that’s everything I know. Don’t write me letters. I’m not going to research it anymore than what I just told you. Now, Pete, I took too much time.

Pete Alwinson:
No.

Steve Brown:
But I, but I did do this and you didn’t.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. That’s right. You’re the authority. [Laughing]

Steve Brown:
So I used to have a Masonic and I have a Masonic ring that I used to wear. So I know about these things. Listen, you want to make some comments?

Pete Alwinson:
Well, don’t wear that ring and hit me in the face with it. I’ll have a big G on my forehead. You know.

Steve Brown:
Would you like to make some comments?

Pete Alwinson:
No. I agree with you. I concur. And uh, I think, I think you’re right on.

Steve Brown:
And if you’re, if you’re, if you’re thinking about being a Mason and not many are these days, um, think about it, pray about it because there are some problems there.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
And not with the people. Those people are, I love those guys, but there are some problems. So be careful. Alright, Pete, this is, uh, an email, uh, please explain John 6:37 through 38, where Jesus says all that the father has given me. I should lose none. Um, in conjunction with revelation 13:8, where it says that we have been put into the book of life from the foundation of the earth.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah, well, you know, Jesus, John 6 is pretty straightforward. At this point, it’s, it’s important to point out that Paul and Jesus are completely in sync. All the Gospel, all the New Testament writers are, um, you know, again, it goes back to these issues of the sovereignty of God and his call on our life.

Steve Brown:
That’s true.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. It’s a wonderful thing because if it were left up to us, none of us would come.

Steve Brown:
No, and exactly I wouldn’t, we’re dead.

Pete Alwinson:
Yup.

Steve Brown:
And dead people don’t do a whole lot.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
And if they do, run. But, but, uh, we are dead. And so there has to be some prior movement and the Bible teaches God’s absolute sovereignty of our salvation.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
It teaches our response. I have a friend, I don’t know if you agree with this, but he says that it’s like the book of Revelation says, I stand at the door and knock. And um, um, and when you open the door, Jesus said, I knew you were going to open the door. And uh, I wanted to welcome you to the kingdom. In fact, I’ve known it from the foundation of the earth. In fact, I chose you and the guy says, no, you didn’t open the door. And Jesus said, it’s complicated. [Laughing].

Pete Alwinson:
[Laughing]

Steve Brown:
I don’t know about that kind of imagery. And again, as we’ve said so often, this is the, this is the dichotomy of scripture.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
And if God is infinite and you’re finite and he speaks in baby talk, cause that’s all he can do that we can understand. Then of course it’s gonna sometimes seem contradictory, but it seems that way. It isn’t.

Pete Alwinson:
It isn’t. Both lines are in there in teaching and scripture and we can trust, we can trust the sovereignty of God. It makes sense. And um, aren’t you glad, that when you were dead, he made you alive?

Steve Brown:
Oh yeah. That’s the bottom line.

Steve Brown:
Bottom line.

Pete Alwinson:
Bottom line.

Steve Brown:
I’m cool on that. [Laughing]

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah.

Steve Brown:
This is an email and it’s a short one. because we don’t have much more time. I love reading my Bible. Do you think we will be able to read the Bible in heaven?

Pete Alwinson:
Wow. You know, that’s a fascinating question. I think, I think I never thought about this question before, but I know there’s going to be learning in heaven. I know we’re, we’re going to learn things that we’ve never learned before, and this is going to be powerful. I think, maybe so. What do you think?

Steve Brown:
Well, it’s kind of like a professor who wrote a book and teaches from his book. I think it’s going to be a little bit better than reading the Bible at home before you go to bed, at night.

Pete Alwinson:
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Steve Brown:
I mean, God says, listen, I wrote that. Let me tell you what I meant, so you’ll understand.

Pete Alwinson:
I think you’re going to, there’s going to be explanations of a lot of things that we didn’t understand.

Steve Brown:
And not only that, everything that will said in heaven will be Bible.

Pete Alwinson:
Yeah. That’s right.

Steve Brown:
Because it came, it’ll come from the mouth of the King of Kings.

Pete Alwinson:
God’s truth.

Steve Brown:
So, but you know, I can’t, I don’t want to go to heaven if I can’t bring my Bible.

Pete Alwinson:
Right.

Steve Brown:
I’ve underlined it.

Pete Alwinson:
I know.

Steve Brown:
I’ve memorized it.

Pete Alwinson:
I know.

Steve Brown:
And I’ve been teaching it for a hundred years, if I leave that. So take my appendix out and put the Bible there. Okay? [Laughing].

Pete Alwinson:
[Laughing]

Steve Brown:
No, that’s an interesting question. Isn’t it?

Pete Alwinson:
Oh gosh, it really is. And I think, I think it’s fascinating. I think it’s important. For those of you who like to learn, heaven’s going to be filled with it.

Steve Brown:
I agree with you.

Pete Alwinson:
And God is infinite. It’s going to be exciting.

Steve Brown:
We’re not going to sit around for eternity and sing praise songs.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right.

Steve Brown:
There’s going to be a lot of that, but there’s going to be a lot of other stuff too.

Pete Alwinson:
That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Brown:
So, Elyse Fitzpatrick’s book on heaven is a good one to read. It’s Biblical and helpful. We’ve got to go.

Pete Alwinson:
Alright man.

Steve Brown:
Key Life is a listener supported production of Key Life Network.